Curse

pigdestroyer · Jun 12, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

I still dont see their use in pve... even in pvp they are soft targets....

pretty useless..

darrylhaines · Jun 12, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Just completed factions with my assasin and it was tough for he last few missions to get into a group. Then on the last one no one would take me so I took 7 henchies and beat Shiro.

Then I had to do it again with a PUG as I forgot the 75k for the imperial armour lol.

I think I'll take my assasin back to tyria where it should be pretty useful as most of the enermy (until the late mission) aren't over lv20.

Thom · Jun 12, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Why do people assume that when preference is shown that it must be some unfounded bigotry? The kid who was picked last on the playground normally is the one who is expected to contribute the least to the team. The assassin similarly brings with it the greatest liablity without huge benefits, so people tend to avoid them.

Assassins don't hold aggro.
Assassins don't hold aggro.
Assassins don't hold aggro.

A good warrior will aggro hold the aggro and tank while dealing damage. A good assassin will do his attacks and run away. When the assassin runs away, any other aggro drawn at melee range is running towards your backline. If you do have an assassin holding aggro, you might as well bring a tank who will take less damage and require less healing.

I like assassins in PvP since they fill a niche that is largely empty. Good pvp assassins are effective at quick strikes and are difficult to kill. I am sure that assassins will always have a place in some PvP builds.

Ninna · Jun 12, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

When the assassin runs away, any other aggro drawn at melee range is running towards your backline.

never seen this problem when doing PVE

Assassins either port away or if they back off, the aggro is on the tank

how often do people see aggro chasing assassins ???

Sarevok Thordin · Jun 12, 2006, 11:59 AM // 11:59

PvE uses = Kill squishies while tanks tend to other warriors.

PvP uses = pretty much the same, but you'd be better taking recall + death's charge or something.

People who discriminate against sins/messers etc are pretty 1 track minded and allways go with the 2 monks, 2 tanks, MM, 2 nukers line up.

AlbinoChocobo · Jun 12, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

(fyi this build is called "having a blast" after a green day song,since "suicide bomber" offends people and makes ya look noobish.)

Very nice, except for the constant 15% DP. At least, it plays in the assassin's strength : dying (sorry).

As a necro, I love the double reusable bomb

Death Nova Assassin, Animate Flesh golem, Vengeance, Death Nova Flesh Golem, repeat. Even with tough mobs, this provides one extra corpse per cycle (Anet corpse mathematics are strange this way) -> raise minion ? putrid explosion ?

Thing is, it might not be very fun for Mr Multiple Grenade ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal pho

So how can you be called a noob for attacking...

If you don't retreat before you hit the 100 points limit of monkish power lavished on you. Thing is, you have to keep your eyes on more than your skill bar and ennemy health. When your own health bar starts stuttering back and forth, and little enchant icons start blossoming, it's time to fall back before your local dwayna outlet short circuits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellena

A rit can almost always find a group

It's the dance, I tell you ...

Mimi Miyagi · Jun 12, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I honestly think the bigger issue with assasins is that...there is waaaaayyy too many of them. In some areas it's nothing but Ritualists and Assasins trying to find a party to get into.

Yes, I'm sure some group leaders won't take a particular class (this happens to a lot of professions, not just assasin), but poor play and squishability isn't the only reasons why assasins aren't allowed into groups.

BowLad21 · Jun 12, 2006, 03:08 PM // 15:08

As a monk, I discriminate against assasins.
First, few bring self-healing
Second, Any class who believes they should be able to take every blow is wrong. Even warriors need to retreat.
I am having difficulties with missions on the kurzicks side, mainly the one where you defend the forever trees. You get assasins who think they should take down seige turtles, however, once they shadow step to the seige turtles, they need massive healing(WoH, Heal Other, Orison of Healing, Healing Beeze, Remove HEx, etc) and the healer henchmen aren't good either. They do what I should do, focus my energy on the squishies who keep me safe.

DoctorEvil · Jun 12, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

.......Assassins may be the red-haired orphan of the month, but most groups will happily take a badly played assassin over a finely played mesmer. I am dreading having to bring my Mesmer across to Cantha. Finding groups will be a soul numbing experience. ......

LOL....I don't know about that. I just finished running my Mesmer through Factions and didn't have much of a problem getting into groups. Heck, when looking for a group I'd spam "Mesmer LFG....at least I'm not an assassin"

There are plenty of missions where a good interrupter is highly sought after. Assassins have been a blessing for Mesmers because we're now not the low man on the totem pole so to speak.

That's the problem with Assassins right now, their role in the party is still to be determined. Nobody knows what to do with them. It took while before people started to value the role of the Mesmer in groups, and now we're all labeled as "interrupters", even though we have lots of other skills we can rely on. Eventually, Assassins sterotypical role will develop. It wasn't too long ago that Necros were not a sought after class for parties, but now they're in high demand. The role of the assassin will evolve naturally.

FalconDance · Jun 12, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Well, I rebuilt my assassin to dual with ranger (from monk secondary). At level 12, she was having trouble getting to into a group for the very first mission on Shing Jea Island! That is just crazy stupid.

With her Crit Attack and Marks ramped with Wild Survival (for Troll Unguent) and a zealous short bow, she deals serious damage scoring a critical hit far more often than not, can self-heal (if the warriors hold the aggro halfway well) and stays just out of the way of hostile warriors while still protecting the casters behind somewhat. Usually by the time the warriors get to the enemy casters, they're either already dead or in their death throes. In other words, she can hold her own given the chance.

Problem is, since so many have jumped on the Assassin as Tank bandwagon so early on and/or have little to no idea how to play the class (at all), it is very unlikely that the rest of us will get any opportunity to show that we can be effective. Of course, I had the same problem nearly a year ago with my first mesmer (eventually retired) and my ranger (who completed Prophecies and is now causing mischief and mayhem in Cantha).

Maybe it just takes time for people to pull their heads out of their collective posteriors. Guess I'll just wait it out.

Draygo Korvan · Jun 12, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Assassin hate will always be there, by the last mission though, people actually want you in a group. (1 warrior + 1 assassin = dead shiro).

I really dont mind assassins that much, so far the worst players that I run into are warriors and necromancers. Even better are players running dual superiors so they die in a single hit from an ele boss. Whats even better is leaders inviting rits thinking that they would heal, but not even asking. So I ended up being the only healing character in Seabed with a dual superior necromancer who kept walking up to enemies and dying over and over. Though having Life Sheath and Energy Drain was great! Still beat the mission though, that mission is a joke. The Kurzick one is a pain in the ass.

Any Character with a maximum health below 400 in groups is the worst pve character ever. (Yes even 55's, 55 is a solo build not a group build [on that note, somoene tried to 55 us in gvg, shatter enchantment one hitted him]). I however will not allow more than a single assassin in a party though. One assassin is enough. When I monk, i do not heal assassins that are in enemy mobs, if they want healing they must pop back first. If i see such good assassin behavior, I will gladly spare some of my energy on him.

Fitz Rinley · Jun 12, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by from the OP Ed

They were never meant to be [a tank]. They go in, kill, and get the hell outta there to heal. Rinse and repeat. Players thinking that assassins are just sneaky warriors are noobs and should be re-educated. Any player with some experience under his belt would realize that assassins have nowhere near the armor level warriors do, and as such, would be decimated if they stayed in a fight that was lasting too long.

I disagree with the position that Assassins are not Tanks. They are Light Tanks. Their primary attribute is that of a melee weapon. Currently the most effective use of the Light Tank is as a suicide bomber (A/E) or as a ranged character which never uses their primary attribute but relies on a secondary of marksmanship (A/R). There must be a reason that not one single pre-made assassin build exists for PvP, but they do for Ritualists.

If ANet was attempting to make the Assassin a quick strike non-tanking class from the beginning they would have supported the class as such. Instead they grant us the class with no escape skills what-so-ever until after we begin to get into the advanced quarters of the game. The early player of an assassin has no opportunity to practice Word of Recall or Viper's Defense. If such skills were available from the beginning then it would make a difference in player skill development and community class perception. By not providing them from the outset ANet has showed they intend for the assassin class to be a light tank.

By light tank I mean a support tank, not the sole tanking individual. They have substandard armor for tanking in the general sense. They are however, and remain, principally melee fighters. Their skills as you mentioned in your editorial are highly chained, which means time requiring. Because the skills can only be executed in a 1-2-3 pattern (assuming the assassin is true to using class skills) they must be in close melee proximity with the foe for the required time for execution. Once they have administered a strike or strikes that cause them to be a threat presence higher than that of the primary tank, the ANet's AI turns the attention of the foe upon the assassin. If, and only if, the assassin has a teleporting escape skill are they guaranteed to be removed from that foe (after being struck) for a sufficient duration that the heavy tank may re-assert field presence and gain the attention of the AI.

Until this situation is corrected all assassins must either be light tanks awaiting sufficient access to skills to play as you perceive them, or they must disown their primary skills and abilities to play their secondary. As rangers have the same energy, AL levels, and combined with distance skills this has become a favored option.

Fitz

Wessels · Jun 12, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

apparently monk and assassin had just been in a group and the monk could vouch for how well he (the assassin) played. and indeed, he was a good assassin.

Having experienced the "discrimination" with my assasin first-hand I pretty much insist on an assasin and a mesmer in team when monking. Also : I find the best teams for any PvE -quest/missions are the ones which are balanced .

mega_jamie · Jun 12, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

I play an assassin, and quite a good one, until recently I was stuck at Raisu Square, due to all this Assassin hate I had to try to play at times when a low player count meant people would be desperate for anybody in their party, as such, it was hard to finish.

I have never been insulted due to my "squishibility" or ever been called for trying to tank. Simply because I dont do that. I have defended Assassins in every thread of this basis, and there are alot, and simply put this is how an assassin is played....

11) Dont tank, let the warrior carry the agro and slip past to hit up the ritualists or monks. Id they are healing themselves, they arnt healing the other enemies.

2) try to hit from behind, the guaranteed critical hit from behind means your get energy alot, so with a fast recharge time on moebious, you can keep the last part of a combo going indefinatly, especially with Zelous daggers.

3) For the love of god recall FTW. Return is naff, you have to be in range and arch! Recall allows almost a full radar distance between you and your enchanted ally this allows you to zip out of danger.

An assassin cn be really good, people just need to know how to play these new classes.

nohooiam · Jun 12, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

wammos have decent armor in case they leeroy.

assassins dont.

pretty much sums up the assassin hate.

AlbinoChocobo · Jun 13, 2006, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

wammos have decent armor in case they leeroy.

assassins dont.

pretty much sums up the assassin hate.

Doesn't change a thing, high armor means they die last. Wamo overaggros, can't keep ennemy focus, hostiles take down back line, finishes wamo.

At least assassins die in their tracks, there's a chance mobs won't notice the rest of the party.

Assassin/Ranger may be a compromise, but there's just too many of them, at least before Closer to the Stars. They're not frontline, and you can't just have 4 ranged assassins with no tank (or maybe with a minion master creating a flesh wall).

They still die a lot though.

darrylhaines · Jun 13, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

As mentioned before, assasin's are there to kill the spell casters not the warriors. They run behind the lines and kill the soft targets pretty quickly.

Take a look at the PVE enemy assasin's and you will see that they always run past the warriors and attack the spell casters.

Doc Baz · Jun 13, 2006, 10:50 AM // 10:50

I like Assassins, my Nec gets 10 energy every time they go down

We had an Assassin as a guild guest last night as we were one short for GVG. This was the first time I’ve seen an Assassin play as I would imagine it should be and achieved a flawless victory.

There are good ones, just not that many.

Xenrath · Jun 13, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Assassins are like ninjas, and everyone knows ninjas kick butt and never die. That's why assassins like to tank. It's obvious really

Roupe · Jun 13, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

I still dont see their use in pve... even in pvp they are soft targets....

Well, in PVE the assasin seem to have been made to be antiplayers (good for monsters). Actually many skills in the proffesions skill bar seem more adapted to be monster skills.

Ritualist have it much easier, since many areas in Factions require the ritualist spirit "shelter", because of heavy monster spiking. Its almost mandatory to bring it.